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Author: Subject: 'It's going to be much worse' (Economy)
FatalWishes
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[*] posted on 3/11/2008 at 20:33

Good volume and good rise today. In fact the best up day since 2002. I'm not all that convinced. There are always good up days or rallies in a bear market.

The down stocks still outpaced the upstocks in volume today, but leading stock outpaced declining stocks 5:1. Most of what was going on is buying and not short covering which means there are a lot of stocks still shorted so....apparently I'm not the only one that is not convinced.

There is a lot of work to do in the coming weeks to convince me and if today signals the end it will be one of the shortest bear markets I've ever seen and personally I think we are in one of the biggest messes we have ever been in. Still lots of hedge funds on the brink, foreclosures are not going away, banks are still worth zero, inflation still looms, and 1 day no matter how good it was still didn't erase the almost 1000 points we lost in the last couple of weeks.

We would need 3 days of gains like this to get back on track and above 13k.

Who knows we may get it...don't argue with the market. We had some up days during the second leg down in the market as well.

Enjoy the uptime because bad news will not stop rolling out. There are still billions of dollars to write off coming.

We are still 2100 pts down from last years high of 14280 on the dow and 606 down on the Nasdaq....so we have a ways to go.




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[*] posted on 3/11/2008 at 21:41
Foreclosure crisis has ripple effect


Quote From Source:
The mortgage foreclosure crisis has caused a drop in cities' revenues, a spike in crime, more homelessness and an increase in vacant properties, a survey of elected local officials out today shows.

About two-thirds of 211 officials surveyed by the National League of Cities reported an increase in foreclosures in their cities in the past year, according to the online and e-mail questionnaire. A third of them reported a drop in revenues and an increase in abandoned and vacant properties and urban blight.

"There's a reduction in revenues at the same time that more services are needed," says Cynthia McCollum, president of the National League of Cities and councilwoman in Madison, Ala., a suburb of Huntsville. "Because of foreclosures, people are stealing, crime is on the rise and we don't have more money for cops on the street."
Click source url to view entire story.



Source USA TODAY
Source URL:
http://www.usatoday.com/news...008-03-11-foreclosures_N.htm




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[*] posted on 3/12/2008 at 11:11

uhm... look at the volume.

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[*] posted on 3/12/2008 at 12:04

Yup, good up spike then a selloff. I suspect profit taking after a huge run up yesterday and a bit this morning. That dip this morning was a shakeout trying to get rid of the weak hands before the build up.

I don't think anybody is really convinced that this 200 billion injection is going to solve or fix anything.

We'll see where we end up. I'm thinking we may end to the up side and possibly tomorrow before the bad news starts rolling out again. Then we start heading back down. Still a lot of shorts out there. Patience is a virtue.




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[*] posted on 3/12/2008 at 12:15
Dollar Falls to Record Low on Concern Fed Package Won't Succeed


Quote From Source:
March 12 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar fell to a record below $1.55 per euro as firms from Citigroup Inc. to Goldman Sachs Group Inc. said the Federal Reserve's plan to inject $200 billion into the banking system may fail to break the freeze in money-market lending.

The U.S. currency erased almost half of yesterday's 1.6 percent rally versus the yen, which came after the Fed said it would lend Treasuries to financial institutions in return for mortgage debt. Traders bet the Fed will cut rates by as much as three quarters of a percentage point next week to avert a recession, while the European Central Bank keeps borrowing costs unchanged at 4 percent.

''It's difficult for the dollar to gain traction,'' said Paresh Upadhyaya, who helps manage $50 billion in currency assets as a senior vice president at Putnam Investments in Boston. ''The Fed is probably running out of options; the market is fixated on interest-rate differentials, which are clearly negative for the dollar.''
Click source url to view entire story.



Source Bloomberg
Source URL:
http://www.bloomberg.com/app...jxCgFR7o&refer=worldwide

Just as I suspected...




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[*] posted on 3/12/2008 at 15:35

Well that turned to shit


Symbol Last Change
Dow 12,110.24 Down 46.57 (0.38%)
Nasdaq 2,243.87 Down 11.89 (0.53%)
S&P 500 1,308.77 Down 11.88 (0.90%)
10-Yr Bond 3.4830% Down 0.1130


NYSE Volume 4,310,200,000
Nasdaq Volume 2,122,825,500




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[*] posted on 3/12/2008 at 17:21
OMFG


You are not going to believe this shit.....


Quote From Source:
Fed to Lend $200 Billion, Accept Mortgage Securities

March 11 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve, struggling to contain a crisis of confidence in credit markets, will for the first time lend Treasuries in exchange for debt that includes mortgage-backed securities.

The Fed said in a statement in Washington it plans to make up to $200 billion available through weekly auctions. Officials told reporters on condition of anonymity that the program may be increased as needed. The Fed coordinated the effort with central banks in Europe and Canada, which plan to inject up to $45 billion into their banking systems.
Click source url to view entire story.



Source Bloombeg
Source URL:
http://www.bloomberg.com/app...=a4hz4_wNb.Zk&refer=home


So they are now trading good money for BAD??? This means the Taxpayers are going to be paying for this mess for sure, the banks and Wall Street tycoons get off Scott free.

This is like laundering all those bad debts.

Quote From Source:
The FED is now letting non-depository institutions (hedgefunds, brokerages, investment banks) borrow from them and guess what our FED is using as collateral for them to borrow money? Our great FED, lead by "our boy" Bernanke, is using Private Mortgage Securities(MBS's, CDO's, SIV's) as collateral for treasury securities (the $200 billion they are letting these banks borrow).
Click source url to view entire story.



Source IBD...

omfg ...they just stuck us with the bill for every greedy lowlife that walked away from his/her house and bills, and for every fucking bank that gave them money to blow from the equity that no longer exists.

I'm telling you it does not pay to be honest. So far being honest has gotten me a home that is becoming more worthless everyday I live in it, a 401k sitting in a money market account after taking a 10k loss since Oct 07, and now a bill for everything else.

I swear....

I understand letting some banks fail will cause a domino effect and lead to a depression but business is about survival. Those that are weak and stupid fail, the strong and smart survive.

Now they are all getting bailed out and the taxpayer is getting stuck with the bill.


What Bernanke did yesterday was the worst thing he could have done. This country is heading for a financial calamity. I see a black Monday setting up sometime in the future. This is going to get really bad.




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[*] posted on 3/12/2008 at 18:02



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[*] posted on 3/12/2008 at 19:49

so here is a question, if u have a loan say on a house and the bank u got it from fails, do u still have to pay it back?
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[*] posted on 3/12/2008 at 19:58

Quoting MountainManMike - posted on 3/12/2008 at 19:49

so here is a question, if u have a loan say on a house and the bank u got it from fails, do u still have to pay it back?




uhuh...

That bank will be bought out more than likely.....like WAMU is looking pretty good sitting at 2pts above junk status. They are too big to fail so what would happen is a bail out and they would be bought by JPMorgan or something.

WASHINGTON MUTUAL
(NYSE: WM)
Last Trade: 11.64
Trade Time: 4:02PM ET
Change: Down 0.24 (2.02%)
Prev Close: 11.88
Open: 11.85
Bid: N/A
Ask: N/A
1y Target Est: 15.69
Day's Range: 11.50 - 12.99
52wk Range: 9.91 - 44.66
VPS (ttm): -0.119


LOL, used to be 44.66 a share...now they are barely trading over 11.50.

Yup, mortgages like yours are worth money and they will not go away. What would be nice if they all got packaged up and lost somewhere like that previous post I made where they cannot find who owns the mortgage so they cant foreclose on the guy.

When Washington Mutual posts their next write off and lowers their forecast things may not end up well for them. I need to find out when they report their next earnings. I bet its really bad lol.

Probably around 17-18th of April

http://www.earnings.com/company.asp?client=cb&ticker=wm

That is when they have posted earning in the past for the 1st Quarter....I'd short it but there isn't much left to short compared to some other stocks. Knowing my luck somebody would come and buy them and I'd be squeezed out.




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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 03:48

dang, there goes my free house idea, lol
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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 06:14

http://finance.yahoo.com/

blood in the streets
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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 07:47
Crash ...


Quote From Source:
LONDON (Forbes)- Carlyle Capital stood on the brink of collapse on Thursday as lenders were expected to take possession of all the investment fund's remaining assets after failing to reach an agreement on $16.6 billion of debts. Hopes that its parent company, the Carlyle Group would come to the rescue have also failed to materialize.
Click source url to view entire story.


http://www.forbes.com/market...ity-cx_vr_0313markets07.html

Quote From Source:
March 13 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar fell below 100 yen earlier today for the first time since 1995 and dropped to a record low against the euro after a Carlyle Group fund moved closer to collapse, adding to turmoil in financial markets. 'Sentiment for the dollar continues to deteriorate very, very rapidly and if we're not careful this will turn into a dollar crash,'' said Mitul Kotecha, head of foreign-exchange research in London at Calyon, the securities unit of Credit Agricole SA, France's second-biggest bank.
Click source url to view entire story.


http://www.bloomberg.com/app...=ai0t_0022FqY&refer=news

Quote From Source:
March 13 (Bloomberg) -- Gold rose to a record in London and approached $1,000 an ounce on speculation credit-market turmoil will spur demand for the metal as a haven from declines in stocks and the dollar. Gold for immediate delivery rose $10.95, or 1.1 percent, to $993.88 an ounce as of 11:41 a.m. in London, exceeding the previous all-time high of $992.05 last week.
Click source url to view entire story.


http://www.bloomberg.com/app...=akBwDYcwlsiE&refer=home
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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 08:21

Oh this is going to be a bad day...I can tell already....the headlines on Yahoo are anything but pretty this morning.

I've been warning ya'll since when???

LOL gold finaly hit 1000.00.... I saw that one coming

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080313/markets_gold.html


....Oil should rally another day...its over 110.0 now

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080313/oil_prices.html

and the markets over seas have tanked across the Glob?? I think they meant Globe...maybe not. With the mess we are in maybe they did mean Glob ??

AP
Global Markets Tumble
Thursday March 13, 7:52 am ET
By Toby Anderson, AP Business Writer
Markets Across the Glob Sink on Worries About US Economy



http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080313/world_markets.html



And mentioned above by Avastar...

Caryle shares plunged 70.3 percent to 83 cents in Amersterdam trading Thursday.

They're done. Game over. No Fed and taxpayers to bail them out eh? Should have moved to America. Bush and Bernanke would have saved you at taxpayers exspense!!


And finally...retail sales....

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080313/economy.html

Yup, they confirmed the worst. People aint buying shit. Everybody has tapped their home equity, credit cards, and 401ks...people are strapped.

I'm going to watch stocks like Deck and Crox and Finl (finish line)...
I don't see ppl buying 30 dollar t-shirts and 40 dollar sandals, and 200 dollar a pair of sneakers in a recession. I'm going to short the shit out of those stocks.




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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 08:39



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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 08:49

LOL, right out of the gate...


Dow 11,918.44 191.80 (1.58%)
Nasdaq 2,212.07 31.80 (1.42%)
S&P 500 1,286.94 21.83 (1.67%)

Back under 12k...that didnt last long did it.




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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 13:23
Foreclosures up 60 percent on year


Quote From Source:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Home foreclosure filings in February edged down from January but were a whopping 60 percent higher than a year earlier, real estate data firm RealtyTrac said on Thursday.

The surge in foreclosures from a year earlier indicated that the cycle has yet to hit its peak, the firm said.

Home foreclosure filings in February totaled 223,651, down 4 percent from January, RealtyTrac, an online market of foreclosure properties, said in its February U.S. Foreclosure Market Report. The figure is a total of default notices, auction sale notices and bank repossessions,

In January, home foreclosure filings had risen 8 percent from December.
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Source Reuters
Source URL:
http://www.reuters.com/artic...sNews&rpc=23&sp=true


Well this dip won't last long...because the peak of the ARMS reset is going on now. Still up 60% but I would expect that number to go much higher very soon.




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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 16:25

funny - the DOW actually went up 35, but I decided long ago
it has no connection with reality.
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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 17:38

Its interesting to see that the money is going into the old leaders such as some Solar stocks and Fertilizers.

POT, MON, CF, TNH, AGU...all being driven by bio fuel.

When this group crashes its gonna hurt worse than the solars.




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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 18:37

fatal, what do u think of RZ right now?
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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 19:25

I think its time to buy more....


When they are up and running they just have bills to pay for the land and facilities and overhead. They don't have to buy coal, or uranium rods or pay to dispose of them either. All the energy they use to create energy is free.

There are Geo Thermal plants all over Europe and Greenland that are doing very well. When they are up and running you will be glad you kept investing in them. Don't put your money into something that has already had money put into it...put it into where it will go eventually. Once they start up and start posting profits they will be very popular and everybody will be buying up shares.

Learn from Wayne Gretzsky. He was good because he never skated to where the puck had been, but to where it was going. Investing is the same idea. RZ has had the shit kicked out of it. No worries....I have about two grand tied up in it and will by more as it keeps going down. It called averaging down. Its pretty risky....but with the cost of energy going through the roof I feel pretty safe being tied up with RZ. I won't put more than a few thousand in it though. It is still gambling.

"Be greedy when others are fearful and fearful when others are greedy" ~

Warren Buffet

Just stay away from the financial sector for a while. And be damn glad you don't own any Bear Stearns stock.




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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 19:34
Home Prices Plunge Across California


Quote From Source:
California Median Home Prices, Sales Plunge in February

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Median home prices plunged in many of California's most populous counties in February, with Southern California leading the slide with an overall drop of 17.9 percent compared to a year earlier, according to new housing data released Thursday.

ADVERTISEMENT
The drops reflect a deepening housing crisis in the state, which saw home values soar during the housing boom then decline sharply in most areas.

Median home prices fell this year in 15 major counties, DataQuick Information Systems said.

The median price in a six-county area of Southern California fell to $408,000 -- the lowest level since October 2004, when it was $402,500. That median is 19.2 percent below the region's peak price of $505,000 last summer, and it's 1.7 percent below January's median, the firm said.
Click source url to view entire story.



Source Yahoo Biz
Source URL:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/0803...ornia_homes_prices.html?.v=3

If you ask me they are still overpriced. I understand you get to Ski and surf on the same day...but how many people actually do that?

They need to get cheaper so the average person can afford a home nationwide. They out priced the middle class everywhere.




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[*] posted on 3/13/2008 at 22:16
Stocks Rise After S&P Report


Quote From Source:
Stocks Rebound From Steep Drop As S&P Forecasts End Is Near for Asset Write-Downs

NEW YORK (AP) -- A fractious Wall Street rebounded from an early plunge to finish moderately higher Thursday, after Standard & Poor's predicted financial companies are nearing the end of the massive asset write-downs that have devastated the stock and credit markets.

The S&P projection gave investors some hope that the seemingly unrelenting losses from the mortage and credit crisis might indeed be bottoming out. Standard & Poor's Ratings Services said it estimates writedowns of subprime asset-backed securities could reach $285 billion globally, up from its previous projection of $265 billion, but added that "the end of write-downs is now in sight for large financial institutions."
Click source url to view entire story.



Source Yahoo Biz
Source URL:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080313/wall_street.html

They say that 200bn injection was the most radical thing the fed has done since the great depression.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/m...oney/2008/03/12/cnfed112.xml

The US Federal Reserve has taken the boldest action since the 1930s, accepting $200bn of housing debt as collateral to prevent an implosion of the mortgage finance industry and head off a full-blown economic crisis.


I don't see how our government taking on 200bn of bad housing debt to be paid by already strapped tax payers is going to fix this mess...but apparently they think it is. Perhaps it will?

I still see no equity in homes, people maxing out their credit cards and tapping their retirement funds to make ends meet. The ARMS are still going to reset this summer, and home foreclosures are still happening at a record pace. Inflation is on the rise, the dollar still sucks and oil is so damn high now I don't know how people that live paycheck to paycheck are going to be able to afford gas.

But they say it will work. I like to believe so...we shall see. Going to take about a 20k increase in my home value that I have lost to convince me.




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[*] posted on 3/14/2008 at 11:51

Well today we find out Bearn Sterns has been lying and needs a bailout....

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080314/bear_stearns.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080314/fed_credit_crisis.html?.v=20

http://online.wsj.com/articl...html?mod=hpp_us_inside_today

http://business.timesonline....economics/article3542775.ece

The only reason the Fed would do this is if they knew one or more of their primary dealers actually wasn't flush with cash and needed funds in a hurry,” Simon Maughan, an analyst with MF Global in London, said.

Yup, we are heading down today. Lets see where we close.

I thought all the news yesterday was too rosey of a picture. This is far from over. I almost posted the headlines from this morning.

They were full of flowers, and rainbows, and happy bunny stories about how much money we are all going to make because Uncle Sam saved us.

This whole thing still smells....and it just got put out into the hot sun and sprayed with sewage water.

And finally.....the tab goes to the taxpayer. Yes we have to bail out Bear Sterns.

http://finance.yahoo.com/tec...Who-to-Blame?tickers=bsc,jpm

So let me get this straight.....

The Fed has already handed out 498billion and now we have to bail out Bear Sterns, plus another 170 billion in Tax Rebates that are our tax dollars that we have to pay taxes on again, and over seas conflicts.

Then our gas is higher than shit, our food costs god knows how much, somebody is making bio-fuel that we don't even have access too driving the costs of everything up, the dollar is worthless, we are paying for two fucking wars, credit cards are maxed, 401ks are bleeding out due to loans and the market, health insurance is for the rich only, and our homes are fucking worthless with no equity and getting cheaper by the minute.

Just how the hell are we supposed to pay for all of this? We are going to rack up a trillion in debt on top of the trillion in debt from the wars. Our Kids are never going to pay this shit off. Hell, their kids are going to be poor.




They should take the warning labels off of everything and let stupidity sort itself out.

Please check out our new website at www.globalwarmingisnotreal.com
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[*] posted on 3/14/2008 at 12:05
Washington Mutual Rate Cut to Near Junk


Quote From Source:
Moody's Cuts Washington Mutual's Senior Unsecured Rating to "Baa3," a Step Above Junk


NEW YORK (AP) -- Moody's Investors Service cut Washington Mutual Inc.'s debt rating on notch above junk status Friday and said the outlook is negative for all of the company's affiliated businesses because of worse-than-expected fallout from the mortgage crisis.

The credit rating agency lowered the Seattle-based bank's senior unsecured rating to "Baa3" from "Baa2." Another downgrade would put the ratings for the nation's largest thrift into speculative grade, or "junk," territory.

Moody's also lowered Washington Mutual Bank's long-term deposit rating to "Baa2" from "Baa1," but left the bank's financial strength and short-term ratings unchanged.
Click source url to view entire story.



Source Yahoo Biz
Source URL:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/0803...gton_mutual_rating.html?.v=1

Just a matter of time I'm afraid.




They should take the warning labels off of everything and let stupidity sort itself out.

Please check out our new website at www.globalwarmingisnotreal.com
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